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WARNING! To potential customers of Michael Lehkamp's Horizon
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Butik



Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 13
Location: Warsaw, Poland

PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 6:06 pm    Post subject: WARNING! To potential customers of Michael Lehkamp's Horizon Reply with quote

Dear Colleagues

Finally I was forced to do this. After about 8 month story I must share it
with other simmers.

Have you ever ondered why there is no high resolution photo available on
their webpage? Only tiny little ones, which look great?

Just click one of the links below, which show one of their product in
DRASTIC DETAILS. That is the Boeing 737NG yoke (at least Mike says it's
similar to that Wink) for which I paid $700:

Very big photos with all details:
http://butik.ktm.net.pl/yoke/yoke.htm

Smaller ones, but still everything well visible, but better for those using
low speed modems:
http://butik.ktm.net.pl/yokel/yokel.htm

Under the link below I decided to write about the whole story, quoteing also
some of our correspondence from all of this time:
http://butik.ktm.net.pl/yoke.htm

Just very shortly for those, who do not want to go through all that:
- LIES - once he says you are the first, launching customer, than after long
delay he claims you're one of 16 and you should be patient
- not keeping promice - he says your product would be made within 3-4 weeks,
when you ask about it after 2 months he says that your "attitude sucks" and
generally to go to hell
- rude and treats his customer like a piece of sh## - for that you have to
read the whole story to understand, but words like "what the fu##" or "your
attitude does suck, period" are just some of the best, but not all
- makes the yoke, which is not fully functional - when I claimed it was not
returning back to position he said he had never written it would do so...
Yeah, car producers also do not write that they put a steering wheel in the
cars, but they still do. (this is only one of many "bugs")
- many many others, which you can find in the story.

Well, unfortunately the story also shows how STUPID and NAIVE I am. But
never more. I hope. At least in things like that.

I also hope it will help others not to be cheated. Anyway now I am without
the yoke (which is useless anyway) and a lot of money.

I've also noticed that after this story Michael has placed a lot of
disclaimers on his webpage. Actually he does not guarantee anything now Wink.
So if you claim something you may go to hell anyway.

Best regards
_________________
Michal "Butik" Buciak
http://butik.luftbrandzlung.org/cockpit.htm


Last edited by Butik on Tue Feb 22, 2005 5:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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warvet



Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 1298

PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 6:27 pm    Post subject: $700. OMG Reply with quote

$$700????? I wouldn't pay .007 for what that looks like. Srry for your loss Mike good wishes for future purchases, one thing I can say is Peter Cos has one of the best products overall availble and for the most part I have been very happy with the customer service. Deal with FDS and you'll be happy this I can say for sure.

Tim
A340
Canada Mad
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SilverOne



Joined: 17 Feb 2005
Posts: 5
Location: Vila Real

PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well , just dont buy anything without a picture , ty for your warning Cool
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boyke



Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 8:58 am    Post subject: 767 Reply with quote

I have ordered a 767 Game yoke about three months ago. I have send him a lot of e-mails, I am trying to call him ten times a day, but he never picks up the phone.

I am afraid that I will never receive my yoke.
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olealm



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 118
Location: Bergen, Norway (a few miles from ENBR)

PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OMG! that looks terrible.. I cant help wondering if this was intentional.. Just cant imagine anyone would believe one could do business offering that kind of "quality".

Sorry for your loss, Michal. Let it be a remainder to all of us to ask for pictures before ordering (and paying!), and to remember that the price often reflects the quality (and level of customer service!).
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Ole J. Almenningen
www.simbuild.com
www.737cockpit.no
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Butik



Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 13
Location: Warsaw, Poland

PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 11:03 am    Post subject: Re: 767 Reply with quote

boyke wrote:
I have ordered a 767 Game yoke about three months ago. I have send him a lot of e-mails, I am trying to call him ten times a day, but he never picks up the phone.
I am afraid that I will never receive my yoke.

Than I am sorry for not having released these photos before but...

I was trying to sort the things out btween us. I was writing e-mails and asking for some news. Never got anything for about 2 months.

So finally I decided to warn them. 3 days before Christmas I showed them the photos, which I had. Believe it or not, but immediatly I got an answer, that I would be proposed a sort of copromise soon.

So I waited. Stupid and naive one more time. Waited for a month - nothing came. Resent the warning. Nothing again for another week. Resent the warning for the last time, waited another month till yesterday and finally I decided to say byebye to my money and just let the other fellow builders know what this guy can be like.

You judge it yourself, I just quote the facts and show the actual photos.

And yeah, I will never buy things without detailed photos. You can find some photos on Michael's webpage though, but only very tiny ones. Now you know why.

Regards
_________________
Michal "Butik" Buciak
http://butik.luftbrandzlung.org/cockpit.htm


Last edited by Butik on Tue Feb 22, 2005 5:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Leo_Zelig



Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 8:00 pm    Post subject: Not too suprising Reply with quote

Michal,

I had an interaction with this guy a while back on another forum where went off a bit and "put me in my place".

In my estimation, his reaction was way out of left-field and I'm baffled by it to this day.

When I heard he was offering a line of flight controls, I was tempted too, but just kept reminding myself what doing business with him would be like.

Thank goodness I had that prior experience, otherwise I might be in the same boat.

I'm saddened to hear your story, but thanks for sharing your information - if we can save some other poor souls, at least that's some consolation.

Take care
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Phoenix11



Joined: 08 Nov 2003
Posts: 34
Location: Chicago Suburbs, IL

PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 10:47 pm    Post subject: NEVER ORDER FROM THESE GUYS!!! Reply with quote

I have been keeping quiet about my dispute with Horizon Flight Simulation because my situation is still in legal arbitration between my credit card (MBNA) and PayPal (HFS's bank). Oh, ...and yes, my dispute is most likely the reson he no longer accepts PayPal or credit cards since they froze his account when I applied the chargeback... guess he never read the fine print d'oh! . My guess is that it is also because he has leared that when accepting credit cards as a form of payment, he nor PayPal get to make the final descision about wether or not to refund a customer... the credit card bank does.

In short, without disclosing the fine details at this time, I ordered a pair of 777 yoke-horns from HFS in August of 2004. throughout this process I made it very clear, several times, that I was on a tight time schedule and it was important that they be delivered withing a specific time-frame. Mike stated plain as day in an email to me that they could have the yokes completed and delivered by mid-October. Mid-October came and went without a thing! No email to tell me they are delayed, no delivery, NOTHING! After I made two unanswered attempts to contact him I finally threatened to cancel the order. Well, that finally got his attention and he replied by telling me to "REALX!" followed by a cheesey admission that he was guilty of not keeping up to date with his customer emails. He explained the delay and I tried to be reasonable by granting them a short extension.

Mid-November came and went with no yokes and again, no word from HFS! By mid-December they were so far past due that I could no longer use them to meet my production-deadline. Thus, I cancelled them. Mike then told me that I can't cancel them and related that they were ready to ship as of the previous week (Dec. 7th). I asked him to ship them using overnight shipping to get this over with in a last ditch effort to avoid a big conflict.

I never heard from them since! I sent them several followup emails and two phone calls demanding they refund my money and they chose to ignore me. By December 27, I still heard nothing from them and they never shipped my yokes, so I called PayPal... well they were no help! Therefore, I went to my credit card and applied the chargeback. Even after that I still didn't hear anything from HFS. All of a sudden on Jan 6th, the yokes showed up on my doorstep! Obviously I shipped them back the next day without even opening the box because I clearly cancelled the order.

You should see the letter that they sent to PayPal disputing my chargeback. I was elevated to a level of pissed-off that I have never been before. They made so many vague inaccurate statements regarding the terms of the transaction and events that transpired. They still never justified why it didn't ship until Jan 5th when accoring to an email they sent me in mid-December it was ready to ship on the 7th of December.

I will be able to discuss the finer details of my situation once the arbitration is over, but for now take my story and advise for what it is worth.

Never order anything from Horizon Flight Simulation!! Shame on you
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Cheers,

Chris Mueller
Sim Icarus Flight Sim
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Phoenix11



Joined: 08 Nov 2003
Posts: 34
Location: Chicago Suburbs, IL

PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, I know that there are mixed feelings amongst some of us about AvSim Online, but I am really starting to strongly believe we should get them involved.
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Chris Mueller
Sim Icarus Flight Sim


Last edited by Phoenix11 on Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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Tomlin



Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 1008

PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What type of material is this thing made out of? Last time I spoke to him, he told me that these were outsourced and made by mould by a company. These appear to be wood models. Sorry to hear of all of this, especially now that there are many people coming forward with similar problems.
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Eric Tomlin
Learjet 45

Waycross, Ga (KAYS)
www.Hangar45.net
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Phoenix11



Joined: 08 Nov 2003
Posts: 34
Location: Chicago Suburbs, IL

PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my case, in his letter to PayPal he stated that he "upgraded" mine and mentioned something about an epoxy coating (how nice of him to upgrade them without consulting with me first and delay my order even more, right? Brick wall )... so it is anybody's guess as to what they really use. There is a ton of inconsistancy with them. Also, I keep seeing these stories on his site about these commercial projects that they get. If that is indeed true, I can't imagine any company that would dare accept work like what Michal received. Part of me suspects that they are devoting all their attention to their personal CRJ pet-project and commercial customer(s?) while neglecting their retail customers. Afterall, they already have your money, so who's to say they didn't spend it on their personal CRJ project and thus didn't have enough to properly make the until that the customer ordered? Just a random thought. Anxious
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Chris Mueller
Sim Icarus Flight Sim
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Butik



Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 13
Location: Warsaw, Poland

PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:36 am    Post subject: Re: NEVER ORDER FROM THESE GUYS!!! Reply with quote

Phoenix11 wrote:
After I made two unanswered attempts to contact him

"Your attitude sucks" (C) Michael Lehkamp
"What the fu## are you talking about now?" (C) Michael Lehkamp

In other words: how dare you not believing this fantastic company? How dare you sending e-mail over an over just to know what's going on with the product for which you paid just a few green notes?

"Due to this, please do not write me, call me, or have any other form of communication with me ever again. I have had with you period! I have no intentions whatsoever of ever again responding to any kind of communication from you." (C) Michael Lehkamp (still before shipment of his wonderful product)

Evil or Very Mad

Hope your story finishes well. Mine rather not.
_________________
Michal "Butik" Buciak
http://butik.luftbrandzlung.org/cockpit.htm


Last edited by Butik on Tue Feb 22, 2005 5:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Phoenix11



Joined: 08 Nov 2003
Posts: 34
Location: Chicago Suburbs, IL

PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Save/backup any and all email correspondances that you have between you and Lehkamp. They might be of some use in the near future if you can find a way to persue him for damages personally or publically.
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Chris Mueller
Sim Icarus Flight Sim
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warvet



Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 1298

PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 3:32 am    Post subject: Hes a cop! Reply with quote

Whats really a brutal reality to top it off the guy is a policeofficer maybe you should contact his department and inform them of his unlawful unethical business practices.

Just my thoughts

Tim
Canada
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Phoenix11



Joined: 08 Nov 2003
Posts: 34
Location: Chicago Suburbs, IL

PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A police officer? That is news to me. I know that he has or has had his own computer business.

I do have to say this on that note though... I was a police officer for 4 years (I can prove it if necessary too Wink ) and I have worked with several officers over those years that I would not doubt were capable of doing something like this. How they conduct themselves on the street and how they conduct themselves in their private lives can be so drastically different. Sad really, but a reality of human nature.

Anyway, even if he is a police officer, there is pretty much nothing his department can or will do because this is a civil matter. Unless it becomes a criminal matter where he is brought up on criminal charges, whether it is local or federal, they are not obligated to do anything. Also, if Mr. Lehkamp is the one who informed you or anyone he is a police officer, I would seriously doubt the truethfulness of it because he would know the legality of his actions and demonstrate that far better than he has so far. In all honesty, it is my legal knowledge and experience that has helped me with my case against him because I know what my rights are and what his company is responsible for. I get the unsound feeling that he does not. Not the indicator of a police officer, or at least a good police officer in my book.
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Chris Mueller
Sim Icarus Flight Sim
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