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AI aircraft in Wideview 2004

 
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Rob24



Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 40
Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:10 pm    Post subject: AI aircraft in Wideview 2004 Reply with quote

Hi,
I was wondering how you guys overcome the issue of AI aircraft in WideView 2004? I have just loaded on FSTraffic 2004 and there appears to be a syncronisation prob. I use the update time function on the server pc but it doesnt seem work. Has anyone found a solution to this?
Regards,
Rob.

Server
3.2 GHZ
2 GB RAM
6800GT

Clients
2.8GHZ
1GB RAM
Radeon 300
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skydvdan



Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 134
Location: Tucson, AZ

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no solution. That's one of the drawbacks to wideview. Sad
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Dan Relfe
Former C-130 Flight Engineer
www.C130sim.com
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Tomlin



Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 1008

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon Boe did mention that by using an atomic clock on each machine, the dis-synchronisation seemed to be minimized at least while on the ground.
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Eric Tomlin
Learjet 45

Waycross, Ga (KAYS)
www.Hangar45.net
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DeMuth-Olsen



Joined: 28 Dec 2003
Posts: 290
Location: Colorado Springs, CO. USA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I spoke with another sim builder, James Price (www.737simguy.com), he uses the Matrix Parhelia 3 video card. He's got it set up to run three screens at 3028 x 768 resolution. Drawback, framerates don't reach over 20fps, but it shows all the AI traffic as it should on each screen. He reports no conflicts.
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Chad C. DeMuth-Olsen
737NG Cockpit Builder/Pilot
www.sim737.com


Last edited by DeMuth-Olsen on Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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warvet



Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 1298

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hiya Chad,
I had a parhelia 3 monitor setup but it had to many problems with compatability.

Tim
A340
Canada
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DeMuth-Olsen



Joined: 28 Dec 2003
Posts: 290
Location: Colorado Springs, CO. USA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WARVET wrote:
Hiya Chad,
I had a parhelia 3 monitor setup but it had to many problems with compatability.

Tim
A340
Canada


Was that with or with out the patch?
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Chad C. DeMuth-Olsen
737NG Cockpit Builder/Pilot
www.sim737.com
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Guest






PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 8:55 pm    Post subject: Condemned Reply with quote

Quote:


I think some one does not like me. B) xx(
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ProudPilot



Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everyone here should think about making a crossfire PC when they update the northbridge of the motherboard (think Feburary). When that happens you can use 4 monitors with the same computer, all synced, and a lot of graphics processing power. Right now the system needs a dongle, so you can only use 3 monitors. Still, it'll run HL2 with a dual X850 Radeon, at around 60+FPS over 3 monitors, or so I've heard. I buy my comp in 3 or 4 months, and I'll tell you then. SLI is alright, but I'd go for a crossfire system to run FS.
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Tomlin



Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 1008

PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crossfire? Wow. I will have to check this out definately!
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Eric Tomlin
Learjet 45

Waycross, Ga (KAYS)
www.Hangar45.net
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skydvdan



Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 134
Location: Tucson, AZ

PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DeMuth-Olsen wrote:
I spoke with another sim builder, James Price (www.737simguy.com), he uses the Matrix Parhelia 3 video card. He's got it set up to run three screens at 3028 x 768 resolution. Drawback, framerates don't reach over 20fps, but it shows all the AI traffic as it should on each screen. He reports no conflicts.


Another problem with the Parhelia is that it does horrible 3D rendering. Clouds look pretty crappy and fog...forget about it. Sad
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Dan Relfe
Former C-130 Flight Engineer
www.C130sim.com
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RocketRod



Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Posts: 293
Location: Colorado Springs, CO

PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hear pluses and minuses on the matrox. So I'm assuming its to each his own liking, but not sure. I may just have to dump 600.00 to find out for myself. On Crossfire, it was supposed to be released in July. The motherboard manufactures were ready, but ATI pulled it back. I have read reports on Tom's hardware about SLi, and Crossfire. No noticeble improvemnt in SLi for FS9, and who knows for Crossfire. But, if you picture Crossfire as a checkerboard, red and and black squares, each card rendering on 1 colored square on any application, logicacally, it should work. I'm gonna wait on someone else to test it.

Rodney
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skydvdan



Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 134
Location: Tucson, AZ

PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm thinking I might sell my Parhelia.
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Dan Relfe
Former C-130 Flight Engineer
www.C130sim.com
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jimbo



Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Posts: 183
Location: Wexford Ireland

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi guys,

I am not well informed on the GFX card subject. What is crossfire? I think the FSM (flight sim manager) can network versions of FS9...??

Regards

James
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Fabio Miguez



Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 73
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Jim,

Crossfire and SLI are methods that ATI and nVidia, respectively, have developed in order to improve the rendering speed of computers. It is a simple idea, involving two video cards running in the same machine working in parallel, to render the same application, i.e. a game, or FS.

SLI, or Scan-Line Interleave, is based on an old idea from the era of Voodoo cards, when we saw the dawn of the GPUs. It involves two cards, rendering alternating scan lines (a screen is made of several hundred horizontal lines). nVidia implemented SLI in their GeForce 6 series, in 2004. ATI trailed behind, and announced Crossfire in May of 2005.

There are different techniques that can be used to employ two GPUs to render one application. The easiest one is alternate frame rendering (AFR), which gives even frames to one GPU, and odd ones to the other. While one video card is drawing a frame on the screen, the next frame is being prepared by the other video card, wasting little time.

The more powerful alternative is split frame rendering (SFR). This is a much more complex approach, which involves dividing the screen in two, and having each GPU handle one piece. It is tricky because you don't know what is going to be where on the screen ahead of time.

For example, let's say we're using FS, and splitting the screen in half horizontally, halfway down. If you are in leveled flight, the upper half of the screen is virtually empty, with perhaps clouds in it. The bottom half might have very complex terrain mesh, not to mention a possible VC. So the card rendering the bottom half is being stressed, while the other is not being used at it's fullest. And if you happened to be flying inverted, the tables would have been turned around. Clearly, a split halfway down was not a fair way to do it.

So nVidia uses a on-the-fly algorithm that analyzes how much processing is required on all areas of the current frame, and predicts what will happen in the next one, varying the split point. ATI runs a benchmark on the game first, then sets a split point tat does not change throughout the game. But ATI can spli the screen horizontally or vertically, where nVidia's split is restricted to the horizontal realm.

ATI has the advantage of having tile rendering available. Imagine a checkerboard superimposed on your screen. If you divide the screen that way, one GPU would render the dark squares, the other the light ones. This is a more even way of splitting the load, but requires more memory to load the tiles into before rendering.

In nVidia's SLI, you need to pair up two identical GPUs. Not so with ATI, but what seems to be an advantage is only slightly true, as the system will throttle back to the less powerful card, and underuse the more powerful one. Combine a card with 128MBof memory with a card with 256MB, and the second card's memory will only be used up to 128MB.

As with everything, there are compromises. SLI and CrossFire are not perfect, and sometimes you'll be hard pressed to see improvements. The biggest gains have been seen on games that stress the GPU much more than the CPU which, currently, is not the case with FS.

nVidia has the avantage of having more time spent on the SLI drivers. When they first came out, they were nothing short of disappointing, but have improved greatly ever since. ATI still has a curve to go through before delivering great drivers for Crossfire.

Finally, keep in mind that GPU raw performance is still king. A 7800GTX is faster than two 6800 Ultras running in SLI.

The next version of FS might be more prone to working faster on SLI, as vertex and pixel shaders are being used in much greater quantity than in the current version. But we'll have to wait and see.

For more on SLI and Crossfire, please visit the following:

AtomicPC's "SLI versus Crossfire"
SLIZone's "How SLI Works"
The Tech Report's "SLI in action"
ATI's "How Crossfire Works"
Legit Reviews' Crossfire test

Best regards,
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Fabio Miguez
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jimbo



Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Posts: 183
Location: Wexford Ireland

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow!!

Thanks for that Fabio. So this is still new technology. This could be very usefull when combined with good GPUs and projectors. All coming from one PC!! Excellent. I think I will see how FSX turns out and build around that. Untill then its my two RAD 9200s 256mb GPUs running my Views on two PCs.

Thanks for the explanation and links.

James
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