AI aircraft in Wideview 2004

A forum for open discussions. Feel free to discuss any and all elements of Flightdeck Building. NB: This section is for individual builders to openly discuss issues that may or may not pertain to FDS. Organizations/Political Groups or Commercial Entities Will require approval prior to posting. Prior Approval From FDS required prior to posting items for sale. No Exceptions.

Moderators: Curtis, Jetcos

Post Reply
Rob24
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:31 pm
Location: Ireland

AI aircraft in Wideview 2004

Post by Rob24 »

Hi,
I was wondering how you guys overcome the issue of AI aircraft in WideView 2004? I have just loaded on FSTraffic 2004 and there appears to be a syncronisation prob. I use the update time function on the server pc but it doesnt seem work. Has anyone found a solution to this?
Regards,
Rob.

Server
3.2 GHZ
2 GB RAM
6800GT

Clients
2.8GHZ
1GB RAM
Radeon 300

skydvdan
Posts: 134
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:22 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ
Contact:

Post by skydvdan »

There is no solution. That's one of the drawbacks to wideview. :(
Dan Relfe
Former C-130 Flight Engineer
www.C130sim.com
Image

Tomlin
Posts: 1008
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 2:37 pm
Contact:

Post by Tomlin »

Jon Boe did mention that by using an atomic clock on each machine, the dis-synchronisation seemed to be minimized at least while on the ground.
Eric Tomlin
Learjet 45

Waycross, Ga (KAYS)
www.Hangar45.net

DeMuth-Olsen
Posts: 290
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 1:48 pm
Location: Colorado Springs, CO. USA
Contact:

Post by DeMuth-Olsen »

I spoke with another sim builder, James Price (www.737simguy.com), he uses the Matrix Parhelia 3 video card. He's got it set up to run three screens at 3028 x 768 resolution. Drawback, framerates don't reach over 20fps, but it shows all the AI traffic as it should on each screen. He reports no conflicts.
Last edited by DeMuth-Olsen on Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Best regards,
Chad C. DeMuth-Olsen
737NG Cockpit Builder/Pilot
www.sim737.com

warvet
Posts: 1298
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 5:23 am

Post by warvet »

Hiya Chad,
I had a parhelia 3 monitor setup but it had to many problems with compatability.

Tim
A340
Canada

DeMuth-Olsen
Posts: 290
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 1:48 pm
Location: Colorado Springs, CO. USA
Contact:

Post by DeMuth-Olsen »

WARVET wrote:Hiya Chad,
I had a parhelia 3 monitor setup but it had to many problems with compatability.

Tim
A340
Canada
Was that with or with out the patch?
Best regards,
Chad C. DeMuth-Olsen
737NG Cockpit Builder/Pilot
www.sim737.com

Guest

Condemned

Post by Guest »

I think some one does not like me. B) xx(

ProudPilot
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:15 am

Post by ProudPilot »

Everyone here should think about making a crossfire PC when they update the northbridge of the motherboard (think Feburary). When that happens you can use 4 monitors with the same computer, all synced, and a lot of graphics processing power. Right now the system needs a dongle, so you can only use 3 monitors. Still, it'll run HL2 with a dual X850 Radeon, at around 60+FPS over 3 monitors, or so I've heard. I buy my comp in 3 or 4 months, and I'll tell you then. SLI is alright, but I'd go for a crossfire system to run FS.

Tomlin
Posts: 1008
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 2:37 pm
Contact:

Post by Tomlin »

Crossfire? Wow. I will have to check this out definately!
Eric Tomlin
Learjet 45

Waycross, Ga (KAYS)
www.Hangar45.net

skydvdan
Posts: 134
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:22 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ
Contact:

Post by skydvdan »

DeMuth-Olsen wrote:I spoke with another sim builder, James Price (www.737simguy.com), he uses the Matrix Parhelia 3 video card. He's got it set up to run three screens at 3028 x 768 resolution. Drawback, framerates don't reach over 20fps, but it shows all the AI traffic as it should on each screen. He reports no conflicts.
Another problem with the Parhelia is that it does horrible 3D rendering. Clouds look pretty crappy and fog...forget about it. :(
Dan Relfe
Former C-130 Flight Engineer
www.C130sim.com
Image

RocketRod
Posts: 293
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 10:06 pm
Location: Colorado Springs, CO

Post by RocketRod »

I hear pluses and minuses on the matrox. So I'm assuming its to each his own liking, but not sure. I may just have to dump 600.00 to find out for myself. On Crossfire, it was supposed to be released in July. The motherboard manufactures were ready, but ATI pulled it back. I have read reports on Tom's hardware about SLi, and Crossfire. No noticeble improvemnt in SLi for FS9, and who knows for Crossfire. But, if you picture Crossfire as a checkerboard, red and and black squares, each card rendering on 1 colored square on any application, logicacally, it should work. I'm gonna wait on someone else to test it.

Rodney

skydvdan
Posts: 134
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:22 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ
Contact:

Post by skydvdan »

I'm thinking I might sell my Parhelia.
Dan Relfe
Former C-130 Flight Engineer
www.C130sim.com
Image

jimbo
Posts: 183
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:49 pm
Location: Wexford Ireland

Post by jimbo »

Hi guys,

I am not well informed on the GFX card subject. What is crossfire? I think the FSM (flight sim manager) can network versions of FS9...??

Regards

James

Fabio Miguez
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:52 am
Location: New Jersey

Post by Fabio Miguez »

Hey Jim,

Crossfire and SLI are methods that ATI and nVidia, respectively, have developed in order to improve the rendering speed of computers. It is a simple idea, involving two video cards running in the same machine working in parallel, to render the same application, i.e. a game, or FS.

SLI, or Scan-Line Interleave, is based on an old idea from the era of Voodoo cards, when we saw the dawn of the GPUs. It involves two cards, rendering alternating scan lines (a screen is made of several hundred horizontal lines). nVidia implemented SLI in their GeForce 6 series, in 2004. ATI trailed behind, and announced Crossfire in May of 2005.

There are different techniques that can be used to employ two GPUs to render one application. The easiest one is alternate frame rendering (AFR), which gives even frames to one GPU, and odd ones to the other. While one video card is drawing a frame on the screen, the next frame is being prepared by the other video card, wasting little time.

The more powerful alternative is split frame rendering (SFR). This is a much more complex approach, which involves dividing the screen in two, and having each GPU handle one piece. It is tricky because you don't know what is going to be where on the screen ahead of time.

For example, let's say we're using FS, and splitting the screen in half horizontally, halfway down. If you are in leveled flight, the upper half of the screen is virtually empty, with perhaps clouds in it. The bottom half might have very complex terrain mesh, not to mention a possible VC. So the card rendering the bottom half is being stressed, while the other is not being used at it's fullest. And if you happened to be flying inverted, the tables would have been turned around. Clearly, a split halfway down was not a fair way to do it.

So nVidia uses a on-the-fly algorithm that analyzes how much processing is required on all areas of the current frame, and predicts what will happen in the next one, varying the split point. ATI runs a benchmark on the game first, then sets a split point tat does not change throughout the game. But ATI can spli the screen horizontally or vertically, where nVidia's split is restricted to the horizontal realm.

ATI has the advantage of having tile rendering available. Imagine a checkerboard superimposed on your screen. If you divide the screen that way, one GPU would render the dark squares, the other the light ones. This is a more even way of splitting the load, but requires more memory to load the tiles into before rendering.

In nVidia's SLI, you need to pair up two identical GPUs. Not so with ATI, but what seems to be an advantage is only slightly true, as the system will throttle back to the less powerful card, and underuse the more powerful one. Combine a card with 128MBof memory with a card with 256MB, and the second card's memory will only be used up to 128MB.

As with everything, there are compromises. SLI and CrossFire are not perfect, and sometimes you'll be hard pressed to see improvements. The biggest gains have been seen on games that stress the GPU much more than the CPU which, currently, is not the case with FS.

nVidia has the avantage of having more time spent on the SLI drivers. When they first came out, they were nothing short of disappointing, but have improved greatly ever since. ATI still has a curve to go through before delivering great drivers for Crossfire.

Finally, keep in mind that GPU raw performance is still king. A 7800GTX is faster than two 6800 Ultras running in SLI.

The next version of FS might be more prone to working faster on SLI, as vertex and pixel shaders are being used in much greater quantity than in the current version. But we'll have to wait and see.

For more on SLI and Crossfire, please visit the following:

AtomicPC's "SLI versus Crossfire"
SLIZone's "How SLI Works"
The Tech Report's "SLI in action"
ATI's "How Crossfire Works"
Legit Reviews' Crossfire test

Best regards,
Fabio Miguez

jimbo
Posts: 183
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:49 pm
Location: Wexford Ireland

Post by jimbo »

Wow!!

Thanks for that Fabio. So this is still new technology. This could be very usefull when combined with good GPUs and projectors. All coming from one PC!! Excellent. I think I will see how FSX turns out and build around that. Untill then its my two RAD 9200s 256mb GPUs running my Views on two PCs.

Thanks for the explanation and links.

James

Post Reply