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Sim737.com - Update!
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DeMuth-Olsen



Joined: 28 Dec 2003
Posts: 290
Location: Colorado Springs, CO. USA

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 2:50 pm    Post subject: Sim737.com - Update! Reply with quote

Hi Simpals,
There is a new button added to the navigation bar on my website called "Store". I call it the, "support my flightim project fund". If it were only that easy. Laughing

http://www.sim737.com/Store
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Best regards,
Chad C. DeMuth-Olsen
737NG Cockpit Builder/Pilot
www.sim737.com
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Garys



Joined: 09 Nov 2003
Posts: 165
Location: AB Canada

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is an Early April fools joke right??
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DeMuth-Olsen



Joined: 28 Dec 2003
Posts: 290
Location: Colorado Springs, CO. USA

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Garys wrote:
This is an Early April fools joke right??



Why do you say that? Currently, I have two plans available and I am able to sell EL Sheet material at a discounted rate. I formed the store based on the interest from other builders wanting to know how I built my sim.
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Chad C. DeMuth-Olsen
737NG Cockpit Builder/Pilot
www.sim737.com
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MattB



Joined: 18 Jan 2004
Posts: 60
Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DeMuth-Olsen wrote:
Garys wrote:
This is an Early April fools joke right??



Why do you say that?


I think he's balking at the prices. Which, admittedly, I did as well. While, undoubtedly, your plans would be of great use to simbuilders everywhere, the price turned me right off.
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DeMuth-Olsen



Joined: 28 Dec 2003
Posts: 290
Location: Colorado Springs, CO. USA

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MattB wrote:
DeMuth-Olsen wrote:
Garys wrote:
This is an Early April fools joke right??



Why do you say that?


I think he's talking at the prices. Which, admittedly, I did as well. While, undoubtedly, your plans would be of great use to simbuilders everywhere, the price turned me right off.


Yes. This was something I pondered about for a long time. Please understand that I spent $3,000+ on research and development through trial and error. If I could sell these products for $20 bucks, I would, but unfortunately, the product and demand is not there to justify selling them for that amount. PMDG is a great example, I am sure they spent thousands of hours and dollars in research and development to achieve such a fine piece of work, PMDG can sell there product for $40 because they probably have over 20,000 customers. Its all about product and demand. What people may want to do is read the detail pages of each product and see what they get for that price. Please keep in mind that these products that I offer are for the extreme builder who demands perfection and realism in there sim. I believe my sim is proof of that.

Sorry for the confusion though. I am new at advertising, if you have any suggestions, please let me know. Smile
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Best regards,
Chad C. DeMuth-Olsen
737NG Cockpit Builder/Pilot
www.sim737.com


Last edited by DeMuth-Olsen on Sat Jan 21, 2006 7:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Garys



Joined: 09 Nov 2003
Posts: 165
Location: AB Canada

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I realize that building flight controls is a major headache that faces all of us Boeing builders but in my personal opinion that price tag, just for plans is a little steep.

Just as a comparison we can buy plans to build our own projectors with results equal to retail units worth $$$$ for $19.95.

Besides what has happened to all of us helping each other out here. I think it would be dissapointing to see builders using each other as a means of an income based on an individuals idea on how to do something.

I do see however, with a nice setup like yours, the constant emails you would get about your setup.

Of course this is only my opinion, But I would much prefer to see a simpler version of each on the tutorials section of the FDS site.
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DeMuth-Olsen



Joined: 28 Dec 2003
Posts: 290
Location: Colorado Springs, CO. USA

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Garys wrote:
I realize that building flight controls is a major headache that faces all of us Boeing builders but in my personal opinion that price tag, just for plans is a little steep.

Just as a comparison we can buy plans to build our own projectors with results equal to retail units worth $$$$ for $19.95.

Besides what has happened to all of us helping each other out here. I think it would be dissapointing to see builders using each other as a means of an income based on an individuals idea on how to do something.

I do see however, with a nice setup like yours, the constant emails you would get about your setup.

Of course this is only my opinion, But I would much prefer to see a simpler version of each on the tutorials section of the FDS site.



What do yo suggest I sell them for Gary? If I spent over $3000+ in research and development, but only will receive 4 or 8 customers, how does that help me recover the costs?

I do enjoy helping others in the flightsim community by sharing ideas through my website and from hundreds of posts that I made on the FDS forums. I've got to say this, and I hope you won't take it in the wrong way, but I feel under credited when you tell me we all should be helping each other. Just out of curiousity, how much have you spent on your sim and shared with the community? I've put in $18,000 on my project and shared about 80% of my ideas and work and designs free of charge within the FS community.

I really don't know what else to say. You could ask other customers who bought my plans allready. They'll give you their honest opinion. The feedback I received from them was "WoW", great job Chad.
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Chad C. DeMuth-Olsen
737NG Cockpit Builder/Pilot
www.sim737.com
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Garys



Joined: 09 Nov 2003
Posts: 165
Location: AB Canada

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately Chad, as everyone already knows...cockpit building is an expensive hobby...one in which we all chose to make. Whether we spend $200 or $3000 in development is irrespective as this is for our own personal use. This hobby isnt about taking advantage of other builders and trying to recover costs because of mistakes and bad decisions we made along the way. Its about being able to live a dream that couldnt, for the majority of us possibly come true.

Granted you have put alot of effort into these plans and Iam more than sure those who bought them where extremely pleased. And for all the posts you have made I would personally like to thank you, for its all of us together sharing and helping that has got us to where we are today.

As for me I have spent thousands so far with alot more to spend. I try to help others whenever I can and if you look here or at avsim you will see that. Im an Ex Interior Tech on 747's and 767's so I try to help out as much as I can on those types of questions.

As I said, I would find it dissapointing if more and more builders used this as a means of an money source, But I have absolutely no ill feelings towards you personally Chad.

Gary
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Pochflyboy



Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 50
Location: Colorado Springs, CO USA

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hold on guys!... Chad has every RIGHT to sell his info. I know that Chad is very forth coming with help to builders. And now that he has taken the time to put that in to easy to ready and follow plans that is even better. I agree, that builders should help builders. I don't however agree that Chad should not be aloud to set a price on his work. If it was not for Entrepreneurs like Chad, we would not have FDS, PM, Phidgets, IOcards, DakenSkys and all the other sim building companies out there! We all know that information Chad is providing saves many builders ALOT of money (you learn this quick the second you start building and experimenting with new techniques). Just my 2 cents for what is worth, but the price is considerably lower than it would be if you just started experimenting on your own!
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Joe
CRJ Simulator
Colorado Springs, CO
USA
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warvet



Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 1298

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmmmmm, Shocked
First off Joe if your so impressed with the low $$ Chad is offering for his plans I'm sure you'll back up your words by becoming his first customer right ?
Chad, When I read this I was very disappointed and found my respect for you as a contributing member of this society greatly diminished. I think selling these plans at these $$ is definitely taking advantage of the builder helping builder creed. Look at guys like PC and Enrico etc they offer a solid product , yet their advice about these products and suggestions are FREE! you are offering merely ideas, thoughts, opinions and things that you found worked for you. That is what these forums were built for to share a vast mount of knowledge throughout the builder community. Guys like Frans , Matt O , Stef, Maurice, Fabio etc etc and the list goes on and on have also spent 1000s of $$ in research as have I but they are not selling their secrets and discoveries, instead they willing share them with the entire community a a brotherhood of eccentrics that have a common bond in a unique hobby. Now do you have the right to sell these plans of yours? Yes of course you do, but to do so would merely reduce the level of respect you have built with alot of builders that look up to you as a trailblazer in this hobby. To do this to merely further your own hobby is selfish, unethical and totally inappropriate. No one is denying that you worked hard at a $$ as well as a time cost to obtain this information but you did it originally for yourself to further your own goals, so to say you spent $$ and time developing these secrets and trying to increase your financial position by attempting to show the builders that you are doing them such a great favor is BS. My suggestion is rethink why you even particiate in this forum and if you come up with an answer any less than to help myself and my fellow builders suceed in this great hobby in a giving and unselfish way then maybe you should turn your hobby into a business and pay PC for advertising space. In conclusion Chad I have spent literally 4X what you have on your sim and if you remember I developed the acrylic mirror projector design etc, do you see me selling these plans? Yes they will save builders a ton of money so does that justify using my luck, success and research through the school of hard knocks to take advantge of builders who have not yet reached my point of building in their sims?
Quote:
This website has been created to provide resourceful information that is helpful in the production of a home built flight simulator. If you are a flight simulator extremist like myself and want to build a realistic cockpit then this site will help you. Several members of the flightsim community have helped me with my project so it would be reasonable for me to pass the favor on to others, welcome to sim737.com!
These words are right off your website I see nothing that says you intended to charge people for your help, do you? Maybe you should think back to when you wrote this and why you did. Just my thoughts.

Tim
A340
Canada


Last edited by warvet on Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:11 am; edited 3 times in total
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Garys



Joined: 09 Nov 2003
Posts: 165
Location: AB Canada

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your Right Joe... Chad has every right to sell these plans at whatever prices he chooses. We all know him as a great guy which is why I have nothing againt him and the products he's selling are sound. His sim is proof of that. Will it save those who buy $$$$. More than likely

For me, having being around these traps for many years now (over 5) its the concept of builders selling plans too other builders, no matter how simple or complicated that Im having a hard time with. This is the first time ive seen anything like this offered for sale. (Other than Mike's published book)

Is my head stuck in the stone age.... Probably.


Chad... I want to appologize for my origional post. I should have put a little more thought into what I wrote.

Gary
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Pochflyboy



Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 50
Location: Colorado Springs, CO USA

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

O Tim....
Please hear me out. Chad is charging for only two of the probably thousands of ideas he has and is capable of sharing with the flight sim community. further more, it is on two subjects that just don't have a lot of quality info out there. I for my self probably will buy his his EL sheet light info when it comes to a point that I need to tackle this (don't need the yoke joining one since I am building a single seat cockpit). The only problem is that you are so quick to discredit these informative pieces without even seeing them. That is like reviewing PMDG 737 without ever purchasing IT!
Don't get me wrong here Tim... on behalf of every builder out there (b/c i am positive there is not one that will disagree) I thank you for the projector setup and every other bit of information you have provided. BUT DONT discredit those who find an open niche in the market and deliver, because it is because of these men that this hobby and become so POPULAR and reasonably priced!!!
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Joe
CRJ Simulator
Colorado Springs, CO
USA
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

its not as much the FACT that he is charging money, but the AMOUNT !

How much info can you give for 100 $ in case of the EL sheeting. Alot has been written on here about EL-sheeting for free, nothing that can be added to that and even charging money for it.

Whats in the documents ? details about inverters ? what makes the colour ? how to cut it with a hobby knife ? are you prepared to pay 100 $ for that ? The info is out there for free ! If it was something really essential, like Cad drawings for a shell or something that really took a lot of time and effort to create, then i would see no problem. But this is like charging people for information thats out there for free.

It made me think of all the building plans to make a beamer out of an overhead projector. Again charging money for info that is out there for free.

I made my dual linked columns for less than 400 $, why would i just pay that much money for just some written info.

Someone mentioned Mike Flightdecks book....100 times as much info at 1/10th of the price.

Chad is a great builder, much apreciated in the community, but i can imagine some people seeing this as "a bit too much"

my 39900 cents.
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warvet



Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 1298

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok ill agree with this Chad is a great guy and a good builder, now that said furthermore I think that what he is charging is outrageous and totally out of the question. Chad listen drop your price for your plans to say $15/ or $20 bucks and I may agree that you are helping out the builders and covering some mailing and time costs but more than that your being parasitic. Joe thank you for your kind words and I do feel you have some valued points so thank you for your input. I hope this is somewhat of a lesson to all builders in this hobby PLEASE! don't take advantage of our need to live out an almost impossible fantasy by filling your pockets with 9 pieces of silver. (Melodramatic statement yes but true Wink )


Tim
A340
Canada
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now here is an idea, we can start trading ideas, If I buy your idea for 100 bucks, you can have mine at a discount price, let's say 90 ... Hey I have invested over 5000 so I guess I can charge you more .....................

Please man, come back to earth, you are not the first one who was thinking he had invented the wheel again to make money.
Perhaps for business advise, you can give Horizon a call ???

Remember that simbuilders are like a comunity, you just lost all my respect, sorry !
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