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Pitch Oscillations and Uncoordinated flight
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Fred



Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Posts: 150

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Andy

Using a VLAN is an interesting concept....

How exactly do you have that setup? For example, is there a second ethernet card in one (or more) of the VLAN computers that communicates with the outside world? Also, SimA (and some other programs) require an IP address to operate. How does that work if it is setup on a dedicated network? Etc.

Thanks,

Fred K
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VE3ORE



Joined: 20 Feb 2013
Posts: 49
Location: Newmarket, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Fred, First I should say that although I work in IT I am not a networking expert. It was a while ago when I set this switch up and now remember it also had port based Quality of service feature which I may have used. I need to connect to its GUI and see exactly how I set it up.

I do not have second Ethernet cards installed however that would also be a great way to isolate traffic and set up a dedicated network for this traffic, could even go with 10G !

I really don’t know if this is all extreme over kill but faster is always better, right.

Here is the link to the manual for the switch and you can investigate the VLAN and QoS sections yourself.

https://static.tp-link.com/2018/201805/20180515/1910012413_TL-SG105E_4.0,TL-SG108E_4.0,TL-SG116E_1.0(UN)_UG.pdf

Andy
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Fred



Joined: 15 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Concerning networks, I did some investigation and spoke with some people in the know......

VLANs are primarily used for security purposes to isolate communication traffic within complex networks. In that regard they may actually complicate and slow down network traffic in most cases, particularly if the VLANs are setup on the same switch.

However use of a separate switch that is isolated to a separate network designation appears to have value in optimizing network traffic. This is based on some changes I have implemented with my network setup.

I am currently running 6 computers within a multi-channel configuration that uses WideView for my visuals....

P3D server (P3D and WV server, not used for visual display)
WV Client (left view)
WV Client (center view)
WV Client (right view)
SIM A (server)
SIM A (Client)

Originally I had all of this connected using a single network switch on the typical 192 network designation. What I did was to install a second network card in the P3D server computer that operates on a separate internal network (10) and switch. I have also setup WV to broadcast only on the 10 network.

In this way I have essentially doubled the network bandwidth and have completely isolated WV network traffic from SIM A network traffic.

After several test flights this arrangement has very nicely smoothed out SIM A performance and has eliminated some anomalies including problems with FSUIPC communications.

I had used this arrangement some years ago but moved away from it thinking there was no significant benefit. However with the more recent versions of SIM A and/or FSUIPC there appears to be increased network traffic that complicates things in a complex multi computer arrangement like I have.

That said, VLANs may still offer a benefit if they are used to separate traffic on separate switches to eliminate interference from other household traffic that is unrelated to the sim. I have not investigated that part of it.

Are there any network experts here that can validate this approach or offer additional comments?

Fred K
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Nige



Joined: 04 Feb 2016
Posts: 37
Location: Lincoln, England

PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:54 am    Post subject: Re: Pitch Oscillations and Uncoordinated flight Reply with quote

pilotito84 wrote:
I have a problem with Pitch Oscillations during cruise flights. On my climb outs everything looks normal until it reaches level off altitudes. For some reason the aircraft starts oscillating up and down around my altitude but the AP never seems to lock it and trim to hold that. It just keeps going up and down as much as +/- 1000 FPM. I have already reset the AP to defaults with no change. Also my aircraft never seems to maintain turn coordination during turns or even on straight and level flight neither on manual or AP. Any suggestions???

P.S. I took a picture and video but I didn't know how to load it
Embarassed


Hi guys,
I'm sorry to poach this topic, but I thought this particular issue bears some resemblance to the problem I am having. I didn't want to start a new post, as it just adds to the issue.
Anyway, I seem to be having issues with the autopilot on my 737 Jetmax system. The main problems being, the original post which was difficulty in capturing set altitudes, and oscillating during the capture. I'm also experiencing the inability to engage the autopilot on the climb out, which is extremely annoying. I have since found that this seems to be linked to where my throttles are positioned. Let me explain!
After lining up and ready for take off, I advance my throttles to around 40% N1 and let them stabilise. I then release my brakes and push TOGA. The power increases and I advance to rotate and lift off. After cleaning up, and after in the climb using my flight directors, I engage LNAV & VNAV but my AP will not engage. I keep trying this during my climb trying to keep the flight directors centred but it will just not engage.
Then by accident, I moved my throttles past the point where I had left them at 40% N1 and I could engage the autopilot.
Now if I disengage the AP, I cannot engage it again, until I pull the throttles right back to idle, at which point I can engage it again.
I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong, but my whole experience of using this software and the flight deck is terribly disappointing. Like many of us here, I purchased this equipment with the expectation of having a wonderful experience, where all I find is, a constant battle to get the software working with the hardware so I can actually enjoy it!! I don't want to have to tweak this and tweak that, I just want it to work, and I just want to switch it on, plan my flight and actually fly the thing without having these constant issues!!
Please, are there settings for my my Jetmax 737 flight deck, that will just work, where I don't have to troll through this forum looking for answers to problems I have, in hope that somebody else has had the problem and managed to find the fix!!
I know all you guys are very clever and many of you probably enjoy tweaking and tinkering round and give so much to the community in support of our wonderful hobby. But after spending 6 weeks in the desert, I just want to come home, switch on my flightdeck and just enjoy it and have it work as it should.
I have just upgraded to v1.91 but this hasn't helped at all really and the aircraft control and autopilot system is just awful!!
I fly the PMDG 737 in P3Dv4.4 while I'm away all the time, and that just works great, and I wish my flightdeck would operate just as effectively, but unfortunately, it doesn't!!
I am guessing the Sim-A software is the same as is used in the commercial flightdecks and I'm assuming these commercial setups don't have the same control/instability issues, otherwise FS wouldn't be able to sell them, so what could possibly be wrong with the Jetmax flightdeck?
Can we just not have setting that work and are able to control the aircraft as I would expect it to?
I do apologise for sounding this way, but I am so disillusioned and bewildered by spending so much money on a wonderful hobby and not able too enjoy it.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Kindest Regards
Nigel

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Jetcos



Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 1214
Location: Newmarket,Ontario

PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Nigel,

Sounds like you have set-up issues. Nothing to do with "tweaking" as I spend very little time tinkering around when I set up a JetMax or full trainer.

I would suggest renaming your FSUIPC.ini file (save it if you want or delete and start over.) Then re calibrate all the controls in the Windows Game Controller and click apply.

Then make sure there are no axis assignments in P3D, go to Other tab and uncheck the "Enable Controllers". Shut down P3D and then restart. Make sure the Sim-A aircraft v1.9 does not have 100% fuel and the CG is somewhere in the center. Create a new default flight. Shut down P3D and then restart.

Then assign all the axis in FSUIPC, make sure it is "Direct to FSUIPC" when you assign the axis. Calibrate the assignments. Create small Null zones for the Axis with a neutral position. (0 in the OUT box). FSUIPC Manual for reference, there is a section in there for that. Page 41 I think?

In the Sim-A Server under Flight Controls, Flight Controls Config 1, set the A/P Breakaway Zone to 16384. Pitch and Roll to 16384. While you are there on the same page check that your Brakes show 0's when the Parking Brake is released. Should be 32767 when applied.

These are all the typical set up items for Flight Controls.
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Nige



Joined: 04 Feb 2016
Posts: 37
Location: Lincoln, England

PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jetcos wrote:
Hi Nigel,

Sounds like you have set-up issues. Nothing to do with "tweaking" as I spend very little time tinkering around when I set up a JetMax or full trainer.

I would suggest renaming your FSUIPC.ini file (save it if you want or delete and start over.) Then re calibrate all the controls in the Windows Game Controller and click apply.

Then make sure there are no axis assignments in P3D, go to Other tab and uncheck the "Enable Controllers". Shut down P3D and then restart. Make sure the Sim-A aircraft v1.9 does not have 100% fuel and the CG is somewhere in the center. Create a new default flight. Shut down P3D and then restart.

Then assign all the axis in FSUIPC, make sure it is "Direct to FSUIPC" when you assign the axis. Calibrate the assignments. Create small Null zones for the Axis with a neutral position. (0 in the OUT box). FSUIPC Manual for reference, there is a section in there for that. Page 41 I think?

In the Sim-A Server under Flight Controls, Flight Controls Config 1, set the A/P Breakaway Zone to 16384. Pitch and Roll to 16384. While you are there on the same page check that your Brakes show 0's when the Parking Brake is released. Should be 32767 when applied.

These are all the typical set up items for Flight Controls.


Hi Steve,

Thank you for responding so quickly. I will certainly do everything you suggest and report back.
One thing I forgot to mention in my previous post, and that was to do with the stall speed of the 737
When setting my landing config in the FMC, I always select full flaps option and 140 Knots, but when I'm on finals and set up for an ILS approach, the stall speed is around 160 Knots, so I'm constantly having the stall warning horn go off and the buffet alert annunciating, and this is into a 10Knot headwind. What am I doing wrong Steve? I wouldn't have expected the 737 to have such a high stall speed, when the FMC gives me the option of selecting 40 flaps @ 140 Knot. My landing weight is well within limit so I don't understand why this is happening. Can you help me with this please Steve?
Kind Regards

Nigel
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Fred



Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Posts: 150

PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nigel...

Are your flaps calibrated correctly?

Fred K
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Nige



Joined: 04 Feb 2016
Posts: 37
Location: Lincoln, England

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fred wrote:
Nigel...

Are your flaps calibrated correctly?

Fred K


Hi Fred,

Thank you for your help. I have checked my flap calibration and I did notice I had the flaps/slats checkbox set in the server set up, so I changed it to flaps only and then re-calibrated them. I will test this out when I get chance.

Regards

Nigel
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Nige



Joined: 04 Feb 2016
Posts: 37
Location: Lincoln, England

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jetcos wrote:
Hi Nigel,

Sounds like you have set-up issues. Nothing to do with "tweaking" as I spend very little time tinkering around when I set up a JetMax or full trainer.

I would suggest renaming your FSUIPC.ini file (save it if you want or delete and start over.) Then re calibrate all the controls in the Windows Game Controller and click apply.

Then make sure there are no axis assignments in P3D, go to Other tab and uncheck the "Enable Controllers". Shut down P3D and then restart. Make sure the Sim-A aircraft v1.9 does not have 100% fuel and the CG is somewhere in the center. Create a new default flight. Shut down P3D and then restart.

Then assign all the axis in FSUIPC, make sure it is "Direct to FSUIPC" when you assign the axis. Calibrate the assignments. Create small Null zones for the Axis with a neutral position. (0 in the OUT box). FSUIPC Manual for reference, there is a section in there for that. Page 41 I think?

In the Sim-A Server under Flight Controls, Flight Controls Config 1, set the A/P Breakaway Zone to 16384. Pitch and Roll to 16384. While you are there on the same page check that your Brakes show 0's when the Parking Brake is released. Should be 32767 when applied.

These are all the typical set up items for Flight Controls.


Hi Steve,

I have checked through all of these things, and I have set them as per your recommendation. I also went through every point within the user manual to confirm I have everything set as per this document.
I have re-calibrated all of my controls and have added the recommended dead zones and followed the user manual from Pete Dowson.
I have carried out a test flight and am still disillusioned by the way the software controls the aircraft, especially the autopilot!!
For instance; I have my LNAV and VNAV engaged, so after I rotate and I've reached sufficient altitude where LNAV and RNAV are illuminated, I engage autopilot, and the the climb rate seems ridiculously high around 5000 fpm, and it's a while before this lowers to a more normal level. Why is this? it just makes my whole experience so disappointing. I don't understand how my 737 set up can be so different from others. I don't understand how one setup can be so different from another. Isn't there a standard 737 config file that is set during installation?
Why isn't there a user manual which explains and gives us parameters we need to adjust if we have certain problems, such as my incredible rate of climb, and the problem with capturing altitude as per the original op's problem. The manual seems to be rather vague in what parameters can or should be adjusted to help solve these problems.
Or is it me being just incredibly stupid in what I am expecting?
Any help would be appreciated.

Kind Regards

Nigel
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Jetcos



Joined: 30 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Nigel,

I think it is partly that we are not B737 pilots (B747, B777, B787 and A320).

Watch this video, look at the V/S, hard to read the numbers but look at the needle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlCuiLZj6dI

Here is another

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeGvhI5LPQw

Departure starts with the Flight Directors on, you Rotate and you see the FD go up and then it jumps up again as the V/S increases. A SID would also affect the V/S if there are any constraints.

In the videos the rate is quite high, the speed would be 250 KIAS till 10,000 feet then would increase to 280 or higher (depends on the SID) and you would see the speed increase and the AP will maintain the speed and V/S.

If you are using the AP you could use the Level Change button and watch the V/S as well. Very high.

If this was not working properly "everyone" would be complaining and also any B737 pilots that fly with Sim-A would let us know. From what I have seen it is working correctly. Once I have our B737MAX demonstrator finished in January I will be testing continually with Mark. But I think he has it working quite well. (A pat on the back to Mark!)
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Nige



Joined: 04 Feb 2016
Posts: 37
Location: Lincoln, England

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jetcos wrote:
Hi Nigel,

I think it is partly that we are not B737 pilots (B747, B777, B787 and A320).

Watch this video, look at the V/S, hard to read the numbers but look at the needle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlCuiLZj6dI

Here is another

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeGvhI5LPQw

Departure starts with the Flight Directors on, you Rotate and you see the FD go up and then it jumps up again as the V/S increases. A SID would also affect the V/S if there are any constraints.

In the videos the rate is quite high, the speed would be 250 KIAS till 10,000 feet then would increase to 280 or higher (depends on the SID) and you would see the speed increase and the AP will maintain the speed and V/S.

If you are using the AP you could use the Level Change button and watch the V/S as well. Very high.

If this was not working properly "everyone" would be complaining and also any B737 pilots that fly with Sim-A would let us know. From what I have seen it is working correctly. Once I have our B737MAX demonstrator finished in January I will be testing continually with Mark. But I think he has it working quite well. (A pat on the back to Mark!)


Hi Steve,

Thank you for getting back to me. I have no doubt you are probably right and it's just down to my inexperience and lack of knowledge in the subject, coupled with not actually being a pilot!!!
I know Mark is a clever chap and has created an extraordinary piece of software however, it is expensive and I would like to know what the blazes I am doing wrong!! As you say, you have real world pilots using your systems, and they don't seem to have any problems, so it's obviously something I am making a mess of.......I just don't understand what it is!!!
I looked at those two videos and they looked perfectly normal to me and that is what I experience when flying my PMDG 737 in P3D. An acceptable rate of climb!! 2500 - 3000 fpm. I don't have that however in my Jetmax setup. Mine seems to have a savage climb out when the autopilot is engaged, so much so, the stall warning is being annunciated which is why I am querying the rate of climb. Can you provide a parameter listing of what you use for your 737-800 so I can cross reference with what I have set?
I feel I must have some unusual settings for my system to react as it does.
Can you email me your parameter listing for your server?

Kindest Regards

Nigel
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MichaelYSSY



Joined: 06 Jan 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nige

Don't get discouraged, there are many things to learn and you can only do a few at a time.

Firstly, take a look at your Take off weight, if you are light you will have super take off performance.
If you have N1 setting for TO anywhere near 100% and coupled with light TOW you will definitely get vertical on takeoff.

Think about a derated takeoff when light or med weight, I find SA has pretty good performance simulated.

Also look at Accel height/ thrust reduction height, they also influence take off performance.

As Steve said, SID also has influence on Take off and you need to interpret what to expect.

When doing TAXI/TO Review, take time to consider the runway slope/distance/condition, obstacle clearance, TOW, weather/wind direction and strength.

N1 settings are quite important, try match N1 with weight and weather conditions. (noise abait too)

I quite often use a combo of Derate and Assumed temp N1 reduction for takeoff even with medium TOW (65k KG)

It is by no means unrealistic to get 5000fpm VS if you are light and use high N1.

There are mainly 3 parts to the initial climb
1, initial climb V2+20 white arrow marker (pretty steep climb)
2, accell height, nose down slightly to accelerate to flap retraction speed
3, thrust reduction height, where thrust is reduced to initial Climb thrust setting, nose down some more to allow for reduction in thrust.

After flap is retracted you will nose down some more to increase speed to 250 knots and after 10000 nose down some more to increase to climb speed. If using washout you will also get a N1 change about 12000ft

All of these steps will alter climb performance.

keep at it Nige
I can send you some of my TO figures if you like and you can compare performance if you like.

I carry on a bit too much but i hope you get something out of it.

Cheers
Michael
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Nige



Joined: 04 Feb 2016
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Location: Lincoln, England

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MichaelYSSY wrote:
Nige

Don't get discouraged, there are many things to learn and you can only do a few at a time.

Firstly, take a look at your Take off weight, if you are light you will have super take off performance.
If you have N1 setting for TO anywhere near 100% and coupled with light TOW you will definitely get vertical on takeoff.

Think about a derated takeoff when light or med weight, I find SA has pretty good performance simulated.

Also look at Accel height/ thrust reduction height, they also influence take off performance.

As Steve said, SID also has influence on Take off and you need to interpret what to expect.

When doing TAXI/TO Review, take time to consider the runway slope/distance/condition, obstacle clearance, TOW, weather/wind direction and strength.

N1 settings are quite important, try match N1 with weight and weather conditions. (noise abait too)

I quite often use a combo of Derate and Assumed temp N1 reduction for takeoff even with medium TOW (65k KG)

It is by no means unrealistic to get 5000fpm VS if you are light and use high N1.

There are mainly 3 parts to the initial climb
1, initial climb V2+20 white arrow marker (pretty steep climb)
2, accell height, nose down slightly to accelerate to flap retraction speed
3, thrust reduction height, where thrust is reduced to initial Climb thrust setting, nose down some more to allow for reduction in thrust.

After flap is retracted you will nose down some more to increase speed to 250 knots and after 10000 nose down some more to increase to climb speed. If using washout you will also get a N1 change about 12000ft

All of these steps will alter climb performance.

keep at it Nige
I can send you some of my TO figures if you like and you can compare performance if you like.

I carry on a bit too much but i hope you get something out of it.

Cheers
Michael


Hi Michael,

Thank you for your kind assistance. I will keep at it of course I will Very Happy
It's great there are guys like you to help others, it is very much appreciated.
I have had a couple of flights and it has been much better I am happy to report. My last take off and climb was remarkably better Very Happy
I use SimBrief for all my flight planning, and I find this to be very good. I do use the SID's and STAR's it offers and I also use TOPCAT for engine performance data. I'm not sure what I have done to make the experience better other than go to town on my control set up. I've adjusted the dead zones for all my axis and control of the sim is far better. I never would have thought it could make that much of a difference, but it sure does!!
Hopefully, this is all I need to do, it's certainly looking good so far so I'm a happy now!! Looks like I will be getting my motorised throttle after all Laughing
I just need the Cos brothers to let the secret out of the bag they're keeping from us Laughing
Over to you guys!!!

Kindest Regards

Nigel
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Nige



Joined: 04 Feb 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MichaelYSSY wrote:
Nige

Don't get discouraged, there are many things to learn and you can only do a few at a time.

Firstly, take a look at your Take off weight, if you are light you will have super take off performance.
If you have N1 setting for TO anywhere near 100% and coupled with light TOW you will definitely get vertical on takeoff.

Think about a derated takeoff when light or med weight, I find SA has pretty good performance simulated.

Also look at Accel height/ thrust reduction height, they also influence take off performance.

As Steve said, SID also has influence on Take off and you need to interpret what to expect.

When doing TAXI/TO Review, take time to consider the runway slope/distance/condition, obstacle clearance, TOW, weather/wind direction and strength.

N1 settings are quite important, try match N1 with weight and weather conditions. (noise abait too)

I quite often use a combo of Derate and Assumed temp N1 reduction for takeoff even with medium TOW (65k KG)

It is by no means unrealistic to get 5000fpm VS if you are light and use high N1.

There are mainly 3 parts to the initial climb
1, initial climb V2+20 white arrow marker (pretty steep climb)
2, accell height, nose down slightly to accelerate to flap retraction speed
3, thrust reduction height, where thrust is reduced to initial Climb thrust setting, nose down some more to allow for reduction in thrust.

After flap is retracted you will nose down some more to increase speed to 250 knots and after 10000 nose down some more to increase to climb speed. If using washout you will also get a N1 change about 12000ft

All of these steps will alter climb performance.

keep at it Nige
I can send you some of my TO figures if you like and you can compare performance if you like.

I carry on a bit too much but i hope you get something out of it.

Cheers
Michael


Oh by the way Michael, I forgot to ask if you could send me your TO values so I can compare them and perhaps tweak mine a little Laughing

Kind Regards

Nigel
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